PISTORIUS: "We will have to spend more rather than less"

The Russian invasion of Ukraine also represents a "turning point" for the Bundeswehr and NATO. With a special fund of 100 billion euros, the troops should be able to "fight wars so that they don't have to". At the same time, NATO is pushing ahead with its northern expansion by admitting Sweden and Finland. And above all hangs the question of how firmly a future US president – if he is named Donald Trump again – commits to alliance obligations.

In an interview with Sven Lilienström (Faces of Democracy Initiative), Defense Minister Boris Pistorius emphasizes: "When it comes to our own security in the EU, we need to do more." And he adds: "Whether the NATO quota ends up at 2.0 percent or 2.4 percent is secondary. For us, the guiding principle must be what needs to be done to defend our country and our alliance partners."

SPARTANAT: Mr. Pistorius, you have been Minister of Defense for a year. What do democracy and democratic values mean to you personally?

Boris Pistorius: Democracy is a privilege that most people in the world envy us for. Some have become so accustomed to being able to publicly debate or freely vote that they are often not even aware of this value. And therein lies the danger: If we were to consider democracy as something taken for granted, something we don't need to fight for anymore, it would be lost. There are enough enemies of the constitution who would prefer to abolish it sooner rather than later. That is why it has meant a lot to me that hundreds of thousands of people in countless cities have taken to the streets this year against right-wing extremism. This includes my hometown of Osnabrück.

This has shown me that many are aware of the dangers posed by enemies of the constitution, that they know and value the importance of democracy, and stand up for it. That gives me hope.

And yes, democracy is sometimes tedious, hard work: engaging in debates, finding a common stance, forging compromises, and accepting majority opinions, even if we don't necessarily agree with them ourselves. The great advantage over autocracies, however, is undeniable: We question ourselves, adjust or change course when necessary.

As a politician, especially as Minister of Defense, I naturally engage in debates. Even when they are not easy to conduct. Even more: When necessary, I initiate uncomfortable discussions myself. Do we need a general conscription in times when the threat situation in Europe is escalating? A draft or even compulsory military service – for men and women? Do we need a combat-ready Bundeswehr? These are issues that some find burdensome, about which I cannot and do not want to decide alone. Democracy involves the process of opinion formation. Only when we as a society and in politics have developed a stance and weighed all the pros and cons, can we make a decision for or against general conscription.

Often, the debate, especially when conducted heatedly, is misunderstood as quarreling. I want to warn against that. Even though democracy is sometimes hard work and tedious, its value is invaluable. It is a privilege.

The global security architecture faces huge challenges. Do we need a common security and defense policy for the EU? And what role does NATO play then?

Pistorius: NATO as a defense alliance remains the unchangeable pillar of our security. And Putin's brutal war of aggression against Ukraine has shown that we need to come closer together, coordinate even better, when we are threatened from the outside. Even more: With Sweden and Finland, we have even gained new NATO partners.

Germany contributes to these closer arrangements with many multilateral projects such as the construction of submarines or with the European Security and Defense Corps (ESSI). At the same time, we know that as a NATO team we need to get better, strengthen the Common Security and Defense Policy even further.

When the time comes, we Germans show what we can do. Think of the Marine Mission ASPIDES in the Red Sea: at the moment the mandate for the operation was there, our frigate Hessen was already on site and ready to go. Or the Gaza airlift: Together with France, we are helping to supply the people in need with food and medicine. Our cooperation with our French friends works perfectly. This makes us strong.

And yes, when it comes to our own security in the EU, we need to do more. Regardless of who wins the US presidential elections, Americans will focus more on the Indo-Pacific in the future. Therefore, we must be able to ensure our own security. That means, for example, that we need to ensure that the production of weapons and ammunition in the EU increases. Brussels could play a stronger coordinating role, so that tasks are coordinated and sensibly divided among partners. This way, we could jointly procure more in the future and improve the cooperation of European armies. This would strengthen both national defense industries and overall European resilience.

Speaking of NATO: Donald Trump likes to threaten Germany with the 2 percent target. Successfully – and Trump notices that. What do we do if the US under Trump soon demands 2.4 percent?

Pistorius: The two percent figure did not come from Donald Trump. The allies agreed on it together at the NATO summit in Wales in 2014. It is a benchmark that the member states agreed on at that time, in order to both guarantee security and establish comparability in defense spending among allies.

Perspectively, we will have to spend more rather than less to protect ourselves from military attacks. Russia has famously shifted to a war economy, significantly increased arms production, and repeatedly made threats against NATO states in the Baltics. In Germany, we have set up a special fund of 100 billion euros. We have already contractually committed more than two-thirds of that. So we are procuring weapons, ammunition, and ensuring the necessary infrastructure. At the same time, we are reforming our armed forces to prepare the Bundeswehr optimally in case of an emergency, which we absolutely want to prevent. Our soldiers should be able to fight wars so that they don't have to.

"So we must make it clear to Putin: Don't even think about attacking us."

So we must make it clear to Putin: Don't even think about attacking us. We will defend every meter of NATO territory. That is the principle of deterrence. Whether the NATO quota ends up at 2.0 percent or 2.4 percent is secondary. For us, the guiding principle must be what needs to be done to defend our country and our alliance partners.

Both from the inside and from the outside, there are increasing attempts to destabilize our democracy. Do we need a stronger Bundeswehr to protect our democracy?

Pistorius: The Bundeswehr is there to guarantee the external security of our country. And in doing so, it naturally also strengthens trust in our democratic state. The better equipped the troops are - with personnel and material, the more decisively they can contribute to ensuring the protection of our democracy.

So yes, we need to continue to strengthen our Bundeswehr in order to be optimally prepared in the face of the heightened threat situation. But what does this mean? We must be clear: it is not enough just to buy weapons and ammunition.

By suspending conscription in recent years, we have lost the sense of who the Bundeswehr actually is: they are women and men with a sense of responsibility who have chosen to stand up for the security of this country.

Instead, some have developed the impression that security is something we can outsource. The idea being: pump more money into the Bundeswehr, and we will be safe. But that's not how it works. We need women and men who want to contribute their talents and creativity to the Army, Air Force, Navy, or in the Cyber sector - civilian or military, as mountain troops, IT experts, or nurses.

"By suspending conscription, we have lost the sense of who the Bundeswehr actually is."

The Bundeswehr is just one of many units that protect our democracy. In addition, we also rely on civil and disaster protection, security authorities, and health care.

In Scandinavia, they speak of total defense. Everyone is called upon to consider where they want to contribute to the security of their country. In the end, the entire society contributes to defending the country and creating resilience against internal and external enemies. We should take this Scandinavian attitude as an example.

There has been extensive debate about weapon systems like "Taurus" recently. But how well-prepared is the Bundeswehr - also in international comparison - in terms of cyber defense and hybrid warfare?

Pistorius: Within cyber defense, the Bundeswehr must first ensure the protection of its own troops and systems. We are well-prepared in this area and must constantly ask ourselves what we can improve.

The hybrid attack by Russia, in which a phone call in the Air Force sector was intercepted and then published online, showed us that we are in Putin's sights. Moscow acted deliberately. The conversation was not randomly published next to the news of Nawalny's death and the headlines about Jan Marsalek. Putin's aim is to create unrest in democracies and divide the West.

We clarified the incident as quickly as possible and, as soon as we had secure information, made it public. Further investigations are ongoing. Of course, we also checked our IT systems. They were not infiltrated. We can rely on very skilled personnel, especially in the cyber and information domain. Additionally, we are very active in research and development. Our "Cyber Innovation Hub" is working on future approaches in digitalization, cybersecurity, and protection against disinformation.

We also support the civilian sector, as we did after the cyber attack on the district of Anhalt-Bitterfeld. Our IT experts helped to rebuild the administrative IT in record time - as part of mutual assistance.

Mr. Pistorius, according to BILD, your hobby is "standing in the kitchen and cooking for everyone." What do you like to cook the most? If you had to give the army kitchen a grade, what would it be?

Pistorius: I prefer to cook French, Thai, Italian, and hearty German cuisine from different regions. My favorite dish is "Spaghetti Carbonara" according to the original Italian recipe.

I particularly appreciate the moments during army visits when it's time for a meal and I get to have conversations with soldiers in the serving line or at the tables. After discussing the optimal equipment for the Bundeswehr or the next exercise, it's now time to be a bit silly and find out what's on the minds of the men and women on site, even in private matters. If you've been standing outside freezing for a few hours in winter, a simple pea soup really hits the spot. I've been told that there is an increasing demand for vegetarian food. I would always include some sausage. It's important to me that the diet is balanced and that vegetables and salad are also offered.

Thank you for the interview, Mr. Pistorius.

About the Faces of Democracy Initiative:

With over 130 prominent personalities from politics, business, media, and society, as well as 2 million supporters - including heads of state and government, Nobel Peace Prize laureates, chief editors of leading media, and CEOs of globally operating corporations - the Faces of Democracy Initiative is now in its seventh year of existence.